Testing: Keqing with no artifacts on and only a Lion's Roar. I autoattacked a hilichurl, cast stiletto for electro-debuff, then autoattacked again. Here are the 2 white(physical) numbers recorded.
400dmg - no debuff
469dmg - with electro aura
Conclusion: Lion's Roar passive applies to all forms of damage inflicted upon electro-debuffed monsters. This means that it is not only electro-based damage being increased, but also physical damage.
By: mikan#2834 and IonFox#8887
Theory: Lion's Roar passive is still in effect and will boost damage even when equipped character is off-screen
C2 XingQiu with Fillet blade and 631 total attack.
1st wave: 161
2nd wave: 183 with reduced Hydro Res
Same XingQiu with base Lion's Roar and 635 total attack.
1st wave: 186 damage on electro-afflicted enemy
2nd wave: 211 damage on electro-afflicted enemy with reduced Hydro Res
Significance: Equipping support characters with Lion's Roar/Dragon's Bane/Rainslasher that deal damage even when off screen is a viable choice to increase damage output. For example, XingQiu in an electro (Keqing) or pyro (Diluc) focused team.
By: Lix-#3417 Added: 12/7/2020
Theory/findings: Can Lions Roar, 4TS,dragon's bane, ravens bow increase reaction dmg?
The answer is no, for Transformative reactions
But yes for Amplifying reactions (melt and vaporize)
Test 1: EC
both shown 1022 dmg, lion's roar doesn't boost EC dmg
Test 2: Overload
Both shown 1296 dmg, lions Roar doesn't boost overload dmg
Test 3: Vaporize
Significance: Lions Roar and other weapons that have similiar passive don’t increase transformative reactions damage but do increase Damage for amplifying reactions.
https://youtu.be/YFyRpQF_fcY (refer to link above for original atk values)
By: Lix-#3417 Added: 12/7/2020
Does blackcliff bonus apply while the wielder is off field?
And can you still get the buff if you kill the enemy with your skills while you're in the off field?
The answer is yes, it does apply to any char skills that remains in the field even if the character already switched
Test 1: XQ using blackcliff without inactive buff
Test 2: XQ using blackcliff with the active Buff
Test 3 : XQ using blackcliff killing enemies while in off field, does he still get the buff?
No, he does not
Significance: From the test we can conclude that the buff can be applied to their skills even if they are not in off field, this also works on Fischl's Oz and Xiangling's Guoba.
For example, you can get a kill on Blackcliff Fischl, cast Oz, then swap off and Oz will still receive the Blackcliff buff
The BC holder must be on field to activate the Blackcliff effect.
By: Sakuno#7950 Added: 2/4/2021
Testing was done using Diona @ around 40% crit rate spamming normal attacks with an R1 favonius warbow, and a Xingqiu @ around 40% crit rate using normal attacks with an R1 favonius sword. 3 minutes on average I attacked a hydro abyss mage and a shielded cyro slime, on both characters. All 4 tests resulted in 0 procs. When shields were broken, favonius proc'd as expected (60% chance per crit). Shielded fatui skirmishers on the other hand, does not prevent favonius from working since it does not block dmg completely like the others.
Short demonstration: https://streamable.com/l87jqj
Favonius weapons suffer the same drawback as sacrificial and does not provide itself as an alternative weapon choice against shielded enemies. This leaves favonius where it was before, the inferior option against sacrificial unless you have no better.
By: rakka#0099 Added: 5/22/2021 Discussion
Theory/Finding/Bug: Millennial Effect Overlap Behavior
Evidence: Different weapons with the Millennial Movement effect can stack, however effects of the same buff-type will override each other. IE Elegy at R5 produces a 40% ATK bonus and a 200 EM bonus for the team however an R2 Song of Broken Pines produces a 25% ATK bonus and a 15% normal ATK speed bonus. If Elegy procs first and Pines second, the EM bonus from Elegy will stay applied however the 25% ATK bonus will override the 40% attack bonus and lower the overall effect of the shared buffs takes the most recent proc even if it takes the lower value.
R5 Elegy active (40% ATK and 200EM bonus)
R2 Broken Pines active on top of Elegy (25% ATK from Pines overrides 40% from Elegy, however 200 EM from Elegy remains)
Significance: Millennial Movement passives can stack, however if a buff type overlaps (ATK, movement speed, EM, etc....) then the last effects will override the previous effects while leaving the non-overlap effects alone. This means that mismatched refinements with overlapping effects can affect the complexity of when Millennial buffs need to proc, so either an Elegy and Pines on the same team should both be R1, R2, etc or it means that the player has to be aware of the order of operations for their swap comps.
Ran simulations (using google sheet's randomize function) over 10,000 runs, each for 5%, 15% and 50% crit rate.
Recorded the average crit occurence for each set of 10,000 runs, for 10 times.
Averaged the results from 10 trials and came up with the average effective crit rate.
The same was done for refinement rank 1, 3 and 5.
Avoid crit rate circlet and minimize crit rate rolls on your substats.
The royal weapon line behaves, strangely, I know.
If you are SOL on artifacts however, the Royal weapons can make for a decent choice.
By: Pleinair#8321 Added: 11/22/2020
Significance: The sword is a rare case of actually working while off field. While Sacrificial sword is one of Xingqiu BiS this weapon would be more optimized for a dps build over the Harbinger of Dawn due to the overall higher raw stats it provides
Further elaborating on @Pleinair's submission, Royal Longsword works exactly as written even when XQ is off field.
More evidence from Pleinair: https://youtu.be/CEcNjSHqHTE
As with above conclusion, there might be a use case where Royal Longsword offers a higher DPS ceiling than sacrificial or becomes a valid F2P alternative if players can mitigate the recharge loss through substats or a hydro DPS.
The video also reveals that there might be a tiny ICD or Royal Sword's ability, or that multiple hydro swords in a single wave count as 1 hit or a single source of damage, since only 1 stack of crit was granted. The second seems likely given how each wave only applies one instance of hydro now. However it has also been observed that swords can crit independently.
This also raises the question of other royal weapon use cases with off screen DPS, such as Royal Bow and Fischl's Oz.
EDIT: XQ's rain sword orbitals do not count as a hit when they apply hydro, not crit boost there.
By: sunnyd#5916 Added: 04/10/2021
Finding: Lisa's Q snapshots crit stacks from Royal Grimoire but the damage from the Q ticks will dynamically change the number of stacks
Significance: The passive of royal weapons continues to stack even when a snapshotting skill deals damage over time. First, cast the skill at low crit, and have the character gain crit from royal weapon's passive while the skill maintains its low crit rate because it snapshots. This allows stacks to be gained without an increased chance of losing them. Which means, the increased crit rate can then be capitalized on by casting high damage abilities during that window of increased crit rate.
By: Exuma#1917 Added: 2/4/2021
Evidence: Testing was done with Diona hold E with R1 sacrificial bow and XQ E with R1 sacrificial sword. Both units used 50 E skills on shielded pyro abyss mages and shielded geo slimes with 0 procs for both cases. When shields were broken, sac weapon procs were as expected. (40% chance per hit on R1)
Short Demonstration: https://streamable.com/nm57p6
Significance: This has many applications in combat, especially in abyss where timed trials will be affected by proc frequency and subsequently burst uptime. Sacrificial weapons are among the best support options so understanding their mechanics are necessary.
By: mol#3280 Added: 5/6/2021 Disscussion
Finding: When a character with multiple charges of their elemental skill procs the sacrificial passive, the elemental skill cooldown shown on the timer is the cooldown that will be reset.
Evidence: I cast one Sucrose E, waited until the first cooldown was down to 5s, and cast the second E. A reset occurred, and the time of the second cooldown was ~15s (minus 10% due to anemo resonance in video). So, whatever timer is currently showing is the one which will be reset.
Significance: Any serial-cooldown, multi-cast skill user may waste sacrificial procs by causing a reset when their first cooldown is near 0s. Since the timer on stacked skills begins with the first skill cast out of the stack, and that skill is the one which is reset (not the longer, still waiting cooldowns), resets can be completely wasted on characters with multiple stacks. For example, with Sucrose it is possible to reset a skill with 0.1s of cooldown remaining, then have a stack of 15s go onto cooldown afterward. To get the most out of the cooldown benefit of sacrificial weapons, characters with multiple stacks might consider using stacks as quickly as possible.
By: Konbo#0004 Added: 12/7/2020
Lost Prayer does not reset upon leaving combat, ONLY upon switching to a different character or if the character falls.
Stacks will also continue to build outside of combat as long as the character remains on the field.
Switched to a character with Lost Prayer, observed 0% DMG Bonus. Went into combat with a single left click, left combat, observed stacks continuing to build up, observed a 4 stack DMG bonus that remained indefinitely (tested 5+ minutes afk) until I switched off.
Significance: Lost Prayer becomes... even better for a main dps while exploring? The fact that you can carry over stacks over multiple fights will help in open world scenarios.
By: ＃＃#0123 Added: 12/7/2020
Theory: For Bolide or Memory of Dust purposes, Xingqiu Q/E are not shields. Beidou C1 and Diona E are.
Significance: Potential implication for unforged? And you can't get a free shield for memory of dust in your Klee/Xingqiu team.
By: Vye#9195 Added: 04/15/2021
Finding: PJWS passive can be stacked from elemental skill and burst skill hits on an enemy. The "on hit" portion of the passive does not refer to normal attack hits alone.
Significance: Triggering and maintaining PJWS stacks in real combat scenarios is a lot easier than initially assumed. Especially for certain units with a high hit rate elemental skill or burst skill like XL.
By: Amadurim#8925 Added: 04/05/2021
Finding: Rust DMG reduction on charge shots is additive and is in the same category as dmg% when calculated.
Evidence: Using level 50 Amber on Lv87 Hilichurl, with +20 physical goblet
Level 90 Prototype Crescent (No passive)
1062 = Amber total attack1.583 = +20 physical dmg bonus cup0.439 = Amber T1 aimed shot===1062 * 1.583 * 0.439 = 738.023DEF + RES mod: (50+100)/((50+87)+200) * 0.9 = 0.400Amber Damage w/Prototype Crescent = 738.023 * 0.400 = 295.209===Rust Passive:If multiplicative: 295.209 * 0.9 = 265.688If additive: 1062 * (1.583 - 0.1) * 0.439 * 0.400 = 276.560
Truncating decimals aside, the dmg number of "If additive" is the same as in-game numbers, hence the dmg reduction of Rust is additive and falls under dmg% in calculations. The same result is also seen in Slingshot.
Significance: The dmg reduction of Rust passive is pretty negligible.
By: Reydriar#8127 Added: 12/7/2020
Finding: Losing Serpent Spine stacks has an ICD depending on the stack count.
5-4: 1.01-1.02s (after you lost your 5th stack you can‘t lose the 4th stack for the named duration)
Significance: Getting hit by multi hit attacks will still only remove one stack thus increasing your overall uptime on stacks. 1 and 2 stacks have a better protection than higher stacks due to an increased ICD.
Relevant examples in the overworld only: environmental damage
Relevant examples: Ruin guard missiles or the cryo gun attack from the cryo fatui (https://youtu.be/qaxgPjY78YE)
By: Special#1775 Added: 12/6/2020
Skyward blade does not increase your damage after Elemental Burst but adds an additional line as bonus damage using the values on the description.
Its separate line of damage crits individually from the normal attacks.
Current Description: "Increases the DMG of Normal and Charged Attack hits by 20% for 12s."
More Accurate Description: "Normal and Charged Attacks deal an additional 20% of Normal/Charged ATK as DMG for 12s" (this additional damage is dealt separately)
Less synergy with electro builds since the bonus damage is a separate instance of white damage
Synergises well with physical builds
By: Chiefy#2036 Added: 3/30/2021
Theory: Skyward Pride's vacuum blades count as raw physical damage and not as normal or charged attacks for the purpose of 4 set Gladiators.
Evidence: Abyss 7-1 with 3 gladiator pieces vs 4 gladiator pieces
Note: The glad goblet had a bit of def, so the video of 4 pc Glad had a bit more atk than the bottom from Noelle C6 Q, resulting in 25 more vacuum blade damage.
Finding: The Bell's passive %Inc Damage works with any shield, and not just with the proc from the passive itself like the description suggests.
Testing: Attacked enemies
without any shield
with the crystallize shield
and the shield from bell's passive
Significance: Although there's better claymores, this makes The Bell significantly better than the passive description lets on. Makes for an ok Noelle weapon if prototypes are being used on another character.
Finding: Yes, it can crit
By: JonahFarc#7056 Added: 5/11/2021 Discussion
Finding: WGS procs do not stack and the most recent proc overwrites the existing proc, even if it has duration left over
Significance: Multiple WGS can kinda suck if they're not equal refine
Finding: Attack Speed buffs do not dynamically affect Claymore Charged Attacks
Evidence: Side by side comparisons of a C0 vs C1 Xinyan
Significance: If an Attack Speed buff is active, such as Beidou's A4 after max parry, the charged attack will gain the speed increase for its entire length even if it wears off during the attack. Additionally, as the only character that can currently dynamically receive a speed buff mid-Charged Attack is Xinyan with C1, this means she MUST trigger the buff before-hand, as it will have no effect if triggered during the spin itself.
Catalyst effective attack comparisons - see spreadsheet below.
Effective attack was calculated with a simple piecewise function that takes into account crit rate, crit damage, attack, and damage % (elemental damage). Passives that cannot be quantified due to how they can differ in effectiveness with different playstyles are NOT included in the effective attack calculation.
The spreadsheet has three main columns - for low, medium, and high stats. Each one simulates the every possible substat combination with a total of 10, 20, or 30 offensive lines (maximum possible rolls is 38, but nobody will ever get such lines - right?). Royal weapon crit rate is simulated on each possible combination of stats. The base stats used were that of a level 90 Klee using 2 piece Gladiator and 2 piece Witch set.
Memory of dust can actually be strong, even without a shield doubling its effect. Widsith is around ~20% weaker than 5* catalysts in general outside its burst window, and ~10% stronger during the burst window at R1 and ~30% stronger at R5.
Methodology: Comparing between ALL characters Base Atk at lv80/80 with ALL 4 Star Weapon at lv80/80.
At level 1/20:
Weapons with Base Atk of 41 will have a (hypothetical) atk% of 12%
Weapons with Base Atk of 42 will have a (hypothetical) atk% of 9%
Weapons with Base Atk of 44 will have a (hypothetical) atk% of 6%
At level 80/80:
Weapons with Base Atk of 41 will have a 401 Base Atk and (hypothetical) atk% of 50.3%
Weapons with Base Atk of 42 will have a 449 Base Atk and (hypothetical) atk% of 37.7%
Weapons with Base Atk of 44 will have a 497 Base Atk and (hypothetical) atk% of 25.1%
Characters do not include 1.1 characters.
I made a calculator that takes into account Artifact Stats (Feather Atk, Flat Atk substat, and Atk%)
Editor’s Note: Jiangling = Xiangling, Explosion = Klee, Zinc Chew = Xingqiu
Conclusion: Since different characters have different base stats, there exist a different OPTIMUM point where a weapon is objectively better than the other.
4 Star Characters will perform BETTER when equipped with weapons that has HIGHER Base Atk if you are running a 46.6% Atk% Timepiece Artifact.
5 Star Characters have higher Base Atk, and instead performs BETTER when equipped with weapons that has MEDIUM Base Atk if you are running a 46.6% Atk% Timepiece Artifact. However, as ATK% increases (from artifact substats) to roughly 70%, weapons that has HIGHER Base Atk will perform BETTER.
By: Poyo#6921 Added: 2/4/2021
Finding: There is a cap range for an arrow - the further you go after that cap the lower damage you deal.
Significance: Damage just falls off after a certain range, and it got lower the further I went, so you don't have to try to snipe stuff so far away
By: JonahFarc#7056 Added: 04/18/2021 Discussion
Finding: Refinement costs scales with the refinement rank of the current weapon
Significance: If refining a weapon from R1 to R5, it's cheaper to constantly use the R1 weapon to refine. Also, if you're refining your levelled weapon multiple times, make the other refines first (EX: For an R3 weapon, combine others to R2 before refining with the R3)