Ganyu
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Karzak#7126 SavageCabbage#1445 Nello#1928 Kidz#8667 air#1905
By: (air#1905) Added: 01/17/2021
Finding:
If you can obtain R3+ Blackcliff and only have access to R1 Crescent, Blackcliff will be a better choice IF you can maintain 3 stacks - If you cannot get R3+ Blackcliff, it is not worth it over Crescent - With Blackcliff and Crescent at similar refinement levels, Crescent is overall better than Blackcliff.
Evidence:
Below are screenshots of: weapon/status rankings based on average Ganyu stats, the screenshots of the average Ganyu stats used for these rankings, and the spreadsheet that contains Non-Interactive Rankings Based on Average Stats, Statistical Key Points and Analysis, Objective Reasoning, Interactive Calculator, and an Overall Conclusion.
Screenshots:
Spreadsheet:
Click to open the spreadsheet
Significance:
Prototype Crescent performs better overall, and we can recommend it over Blackcliff based on what the player can/is willing to invest as well as the content they care about.
By: (JinJinx (Mathalos Main)#5874) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
In practice, when in the abyss the usage of amos bow and C1 Ganyu are incredibly significant due to the advantages in both damage, and energy regen that they provide.
Evidence:
User JinJinx witnessed Aerylle’s original hyper invest Ganyu post and attempted it with his own setup (with C0 and prototype crescent) and found that he could not get anywhere near the values that Aerylle was getting. With that in mind, he then subsequently wrote this document showing his findings as to why this was the case.
[Document] In reference to Aerylle’s Hyper-invested Ganyu run
Significance:
With this analysis in mind it shows that the both constellation 1, and especially the Amos bow are unbelievably powerful boosts to Ganyu’s overall kit and damage, and that while not mandatory, are definitely worth picking up for users who want major power boosts to Ganyu.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/24/2021
Finding:
Bloom has an innate travel time of 0.3s with Amos’ bow. Currently no record of Amos’ bow’s passive dropping below 3 stacks for FFB.
With Ganyu’s C1, the 15% cryo shred is applied to the FFB of the first shot so long as FFA hits.
Evidence:
Tested with Ganyu, no artifact, R1 Amos, c6 and level 8 talent. consistent 889 dmg with 2090 bloom in the first video. After the initial charged shot, the resulting bloom dmg did not change at close range meaning that the cryo shred was applied to the first bloom. by running maths, we found out that the bloom has 0.3 travel time. (204.8% x 1.12 x 0.9)/(348.16% x (1.12 + 0.24) x 1.025) = 889/2090.
Significance:
Ganyu synergises well with Amos’ Bow. C1 is slightly better due to the finding.
By: (Kidz#8667) Added: 01/25/2021
Finding:
Regardless of whether both the initial and the bloom of Ganyu’s charge attack hit the enemy, Viridescent Hunt’s passive has been found to be activatable by both instances. Additionally, because both the arrow and the charge attack can trigger Viridescent Hunt’s passive, the 50% chance of activation is rolled twice if both the arrow and the bloom hit the enemy.
Evidence:
User (Kidz#8557) tested for Viridescent Hunt triggers by purposefully missing the initial shot during testing in order to only hit the enemies with the bloom, and sure enough despite the initial arrow completely missing, Ganyu’s bloom still triggered Viridescent Hunt’s passive
[video] Viridescent hunt passive bloom test
Significance:
Due to the fact that Viridescent Hunt can trigger on both the bloom or the arrow this means that on average Viridescent Hunt’s passive has a 75% chance at triggering with refinement 1 when users hit a target with both the bloom and the arrow, meaning that Viridescent Hunt is theoretically more consistent on Ganyu than other characters.
By: (Shinku#8903) Added: 01/26/2021
Finding:
The distance required in order to get an individual stack of the Amos’ passive buff of 8% dmg bonus per 0.1 seconds of travel time is approximately 5 in game meters per stack with the first stack applying at a distance of 3 in game meters. For reference, to get maximum stacks with the Amos bow, the distance is approximately half of Ganyu’s elemental burst in length.
Evidence:
User Shinku used the training dummy daily commission along with a world quest as a marker for distance, (starting at 544m away from said marker at point blank range), and subsequently tested the distance required for each stack by measuring his total distance away from the marker, and then tracking how many meters he had to travel before the next stack of Amos proc’d. He in turn found the following values.
[video] Amos bow stack range test
544m is our 0, 1769 is our damage without stacks.
547m damage changes to 1896, first stack (3m)
552m damage changes to 2022, second stack (8m)
557m damage changes to 2149, third stack (13m)
562m damage changes to 2275, fourth stack (18m)
567m damage changes to 2409, fifth stack (23m)
580 damage falloff gives 2161 (36m)
Significance:
These distance calculations will allow for players to have a better understanding of how much distance is required to get maximum stacks of Amos’ Bow’s passive, instead of having to just guess how far they need to be from their target.
By: (Cola#6861) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
When shooting with the Skyward Harp, it is possible to achieve a critical hit on the passive ability.
Evidence:
User Cola Sen was discussing in theory crafting about the Skyward Harp when its ability to crit came into the conversation. Afterwards they decided to test out their hypothesis and reported on their findings:
[video] Skyward Harp passive critting
Significance:
When using the Skyward Harp, it is now apparent that it is slightly better then we originally thought as its own passive gains benefits from the crit rate and crit damage that the Harp provides.
By: (That’s so Poyo#6921) Added: 01/24/2021
Finding:
The bloom damage from Ganyu’s frost flake arrow is considered to be a charge attack along with the initial arrow itself, meaning that both the bloom and the arrow are affected by charge attack multipliers such as the ones received from 4pc Wanderers Troupe, Bolide, and Heart of Depth.
Evidence:
User Poyo tested Ganyu’s frost flake arrow with the 4p Wanderers Troupe set, then swapped out a piece of the set with similar sub stats to test if there would be a significant damage difference in bloom damage between having the 35% charge attack bonus, and not. The following findings show that there is indeed a significant damage difference when equipping the 4p Wanderer’s Troupe set, implying that the bloom is considered a charge attack, and is in turn affected by charge attack multipliers.
[video] Wanderer Troupe Bloom damage test
Significance:
This finding means that set bonuses that improve charge attacks such as Wanderers Troupe, Bolide, and Heart of Depth, will have a significant boost to Ganyu’s bloom damage, implying that Ganyu will have significantly more potential options for viable sets then we initially thought.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/24/2021
Finding:
Ganyu is unable to perform the ARCC tech with her Frostflake Arrow meaning that she cannot benefit from the frame advantages that a majority of the bow users gain when using their respective charged shots.
Evidence:
User SavageCabbage tested out trying to perform the ARCC tech with Ganyu’s Frostflake Arrow, which resulted in the arrow reverting back to a non-elemental aimed shot, meaning that it is not possible to perform the ARCC tech with Ganyu’s charged shot.
Significance:
With this knowledge we now know that there is no potential frame advantage from attempting to perform the ARCC tech with Ganyu’s charged attack, meaning that there is significantly less room for improvement for individual players in terms of animation cancels that they would need to learn.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/24/2021
Finding:
Ganyu’s A1 passive does not apply to itself. Meaning the bloom from the first frostflake arrow shown within 5 seconds will not have an increased critical rate
Evidence:
Tests were run by user SavageCabbage with Ganyu at 80% critical rate on their artifacts. Due to this, if Ganyu’s A1 passive applies to itself they would never experience a non-critical bloom during testing, which was not the case.
[video] Ascension 1 passive test
Significance:
This knowledge allows for a clearer understanding of her talents, and implies that for shorter fights Ganyu will be marginally weaker at the start of the fight due to her first shot not having the A1 passive.
By: (Nello#1928) Added: 01/25/2021
Finding:
Ganyu’s A1 passive persists after swapping characters, meaning that it is possible to maintain the 20% crit rate from A1 while swapping to supports to activate their abilities and elemental bursts as long as the swap time is within the 5 second period. (Note: the crit rate increase does not apply to others).
Additionally, Buffs applied to the character after an arrow has been released are not added to the fired arrow. The arrow's damage is “snapshot” from the state of the character when released.
With these two things in mind, as long as the FrostFlakeArrow is fired within 5 seconds of the previous arrow regardless of what you do during this timeframe the 20% additional crit buff is maintained.
Evidence:
The activation of the A1 passive is visible after Ganyu shoots a frost flake arrow (as can be seen from the yellow visual effect around Ganyu) and the effect persists after swap:
[video] A1 passive swap test
After shooting an arrow, moving inside/outside Bennett’s burst does not change the damage dealt by arrows previously released, therefore arrows do not dynamically update buffs, they keep the same state after being fired:
Significance:
This proves that it is possible to use other character’s elemental bursts and/or skills while maintaining Ganyu’s 20% critical rate buff which both improves her viability by making her significantly less of a selfish carry, and allows for potential usage (although overall probably not optimal) in swap comps with Ganyu.
By: (TiagoESC#6773) Added: 01/25/2021
Finding:
All of Ganyu’s Abilities including her charged shot and bloom has 1U cryo application. For more information about Gauge Units, there is an in depth explanation in the KeqingMains Theorycrafting library Found under:
A List of Links to other Character Theorycrafting Libraries
Evidence:
Demonstrated by doing a double melt on an enemy with 1U pyro.
Significance:
Knowing that Ganyu’s abilities are 1U will allow for easier melt setups as you can double melt on XiangLing’s Guoba.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/26/2021
Finding:
If you freeze a shielded enemy with the FFA, the FFB can hit through the enemy's shield and damage them.
Evidence:
Tested against a shielded hilichurl in water.
[video] Shielded enemy freeze interaction
Significance:
Freeze 1 : Melt 0.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/27/2021
Finding:
When hitting the shield of a target who has hydro already applied to them, whether that be via environment or via elemental aura, even if the arrow deals no damage to the target it will still cause the freeze reaction to the enemy.
Evidence:
User SavageCabbage tested this theory by deliberately aiming for hilichurl shields while they were standing in water in order to have a constant hydro application. By directly aiming for the shields, he ensured that there would be no damage directly inflicted on the target. In turn, he revealed that even if the frost flake arrow does not directly hit the shielded target, it will still cause the freeze reaction as the enemy will have cryo applied to them from the shot.
Significance:
Due to the fact that freeze can still be applied to shielded units without directly damaging them means that freeze comp is an incredibly valuable asset against shielded enemies, especially for the current* (as of 01/27/2021) spiral abyss where there are multiple shielded Mitachurls on floor 12-3.
By: (Kidz#8667) (SavageCabbage#1445) (Pinupski#9999) Added: 01/14/2021
Finding:
Damage from FFB is applied in a cylinder relative to the impact point of the FFA. Regardless of vertical distance from the impact point of the FFA the damage is applied to all units inside the AoE on the same frame. Relative to the animation, the AoE cylinder extends further down than the animation suggests and also slightly above the apex of the FFB animation.
Evidence:
Same frame damage regardless of vertical, same frame can be deduced from the opaqueness and size of the damage numbers: Image 1;
Upper limit of AoE and its radius shown by upper hilichurl: Image 2;
Upper limit of AoE and its radius shown by upper hilichurl: Image 3;
Lower Limit of AoE shown by bottom hilichurl: Image 4;
FFB Radius shown by hilichurl behind the 5: Image 5.
Significance:
Plots out the AoE of the FFB and show that the FFB damage is being applied to all mobs in the AoE at the same frame.
By: (@qwertyasdf007#9101) Added: 02/08/2021
Finding:
Theory: Charged Shot originates at the bow and targets the frontmost object in the reticle line of sight.
Subtheory: Collision detection hitboxes are wonky for some objects seen in the video (e.g. thorns).
Evidence:
First clip supports the fact that the charge shot originates at the bow.
Second and third clip support the fact that the charge shot is aimed toward some object in the reticle line of sight.
Fourth clip makes the distinction that the charge shot is aimed toward the frontmost object.
[video] Bow Character Charge Shot Aim Deviation
Given that if the theory is correct, then the subtheory is supported by the fact that in clips 2-4 the charge shot is targeting something in front of the "first" object in the reticle line of sight. This seems to imply that the "aim shot" hitbox is different from the actual hitbox for collision detection.
Significance:
Some objects provide strange interactions when aiming charge shots. As the bow character is to the left of the reticle, the released charge shot will be:
to the left of the reticle when the arrow is in front of the target;
to the right of the reticle when the arrow is behind the target.
For moving targets, as they move toward you, the target is closer to the character than where the target was originally. In this case, the arrow will be to the left of the target, and potentially miss. It's better to aim toward the right edge of the target. Arrow deviation will be increased the closer the target is.
Special thanks to SavageCabbage#1445 for founding this theory and discussing its significance.
By: Exuma#1917 and JenjenJL#6582 Added: 6/17/2021 Discussion
Finding: Two Ice Lotuses can exist simultaneously on C0 Ganyu.
Evidence: Video
Significance: It is possible to spawn multiple Ice Lotuses without C2 Ganyu.
By: (TiagoESC#6773) Added: 01/24/2021
Finding:
Ganyu’s Q creates 50 icicles in 15 seconds, or 1 every 0.3 seconds.
Evidence:
Shard hit the ground in a 18 frame interval (at 60 fps) or 9 frames in 30 fps.
[video] Icicle drop counting
Significance:
Knowing the number of icicles during Ganyu’s Q will help with other findings like Icicle ICD.
By: (Artesians#0002) Added: 01/12/2021
Finding:
Ganyu’s Q, Celestial Shower, drops an icicle on a random enemy that has not been targeted by an icicle in the last 4 icicle drops. The icicles drop randomly among "legal" targets, which are defined as enemies that have not been targeted by the last 4 icicle drops. If there are no legal targets, they will drop on the ground, where the AoE can still strike a target.
Evidence:
User Artesians#0002 walked into F12 and up to the hypostasis, used Ganyu’s Q, and counted the frames it took for an icicle to spawn above an enemy:
[video] Ganyu's Q against an isolated enemy in a group
In the video, the icicle spawns at frames: 603, 710, and 818.
107/60 = 1.783s
108/60 = 1.8s
It was tested against the hypostasis, and it took again 108 frames exactly for an icicle to spawn above it; however, these results were later disproved by other clips and testing where an ICD was seemingly 1.5s.
Thus, a series of experiments were conducted on groups of 1, 5, 6, and 7 enemies within Ganyu ultimate. At around 10 seconds, a hillichurl breaks out from the pack and 4 icicles are dropped randomly amongst the 6 other targets, but he is struck again by the 5th icicle:
[video] Ganyu's Q against several enemies
Difficult to count the icicles initially, but 4 icicles are dropped on the ground before one strikes the Fatui:
[video] Ganyu's Q against 1 enemy
Significance:
Ganyu's Q is really bad against single target enemies for cryo application. Her cryo application really shines when you can abuse the fact that the icicles have separate cryo applications on enemies that are grouped.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/24/2021
Finding:
Ganyu’s elemental burst will not apply the 20% bonus cryo damage from its initial cast to itself, regardless of if the user stands inside or outside of the elemental burst post casting, implying that Ganyu’s elemental burst is snapcast in nature.
Evidence:
User SavageCabbage tested out using Ganyu’s elemental burst on a group of enemies and recorded the damage values he received. After this, he took said recorded values and inputted them into the damage formula to determine if the values he observed matched the values he would theoretically be receiving with the 20% damage buff.
[Video] A4 test on elemental burst
Image
Significance:
These findings are important for Ganyu players to know as their elemental bursts will deal less damage then they might assume on paper due to the common misconception that Ganyu’s ultimate is not snapcast in nature. Along with this due to the fact that the 20% bonus cryo damage will apply if you burst off of cooldown further incentivises players to do so.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) (TiagoESC#6773) Added: 01/25/2021
Finding:
On subsequent casts of Ganyu’s Celestial Shower, if done in quick succession (immediately after the cooldown generally), Ganyu’s ascension 4 will actually trigger for the elemental burst unlike in the initial cast, and furthermore; Ganyu’s constellation 4 debuff will carry over to any enemy that is currently in the elemental bursts aura.
Evidence:
Users SavageCabbage and Tiago did some testing of Ganyu’s elemental burst by casting the burst in succession against a cryo regislive, and a group of slimes respectively in order to test for both C4 and non C4 interactions. The result of which showed that after initial casting, both ascension 4 and constellation 4 were able to carry over providing additional damage for Ganyu.
Significance:
This finding implies that Ganyu’s overall elemental burst damage spikes significantly if done off-cooldown due to A4 being able to go into effect if the elemental burst is cast in quick succession. This in turn greatly improves the value of constellation 1, minorly improves the value of constellation 4, and makes Ganyu’s ascension 4 talent even better than it already is.
By: (TiagoESC#6773) Added: 01/13/2021
Finding:
Against just about every single normal enemy in the game, Ganyu’s Trail of Qilin (E) has been shown to properly taunt the various enemies. The enemies that were included in testing are: Abyss mage, Slime, Boar King, Cryo Cicin Mage, Electro Cicin Mage, Geovishap Hatchling, Ruin Guard, Ruin Hunter, Hili/Samachurl, Lawachurl, Mitachurl, Pyro Agent, Electro/Hydro Skirmishers, Pyro Skirmisher and (Cryo)Whooperflower.
Evidence:
User Tiago thoroughly tested Ganyu’s Trail of Qilin by going to each individual enemy in the game (except for eye of the storm and bosses) and activating Ganyu’s E ability to see if the taunt would work against said enemy. The result showed that against every single enemy that was tested against, Ganyu’s Trail of Qilin was able to taunt the enemy as intended.
Significance:
As Ganyu’s Trail of Qilin is capable of properly taunting just about every single enemy in the game it will prove to be a highly valuable asset in crowd control for Ganyu players, especially in melt comps due to it attracting enemies near Xiangling’s Guoba, along with being a major asset for abyss 11-2.
By: (Karzak#7126) (Nello#1928) (Neptunya#8291) Added: 01/28/2021
Finding:
Both Ganyu’s frost flake arrow (on release) as well as Ganyu’s elemental burst (on initial cast) are snapshot in nature, meaning that any buffs or effects applied to the character will only affect them if they are on Ganyu during the initial release, and cast respectively
Evidence:
User Neptunya tested Ganyu’s elemental burst by casting it along with a Bennett ult, varying between being inside the Bennett ult during cast, walking into the Bennett ult after cast, and not being in the Bennett ult whatsoever in order to determine if Ganyu’s elemental burst was snapshot in nature, which she found to be true. Similarly, user Nello tested Ganyu’s charge shot by shooting a hilichurl at extreme distances in order to give them enough time to walk in and outside of a Bennett ult mid shot. Through this they similarly discovered that Ganyu’s Frost Flake arrow is also snapshot in nature.
[video] Ganyu charge shot snapshotting
[video] Ganyu burst outside of Bennett buff
[video] Ganyu burst inside of Bennett buff
Significance:
By the fact that both Ganyu’s CA and elemental burst are snapshot in nature, we now have a better understanding of how Bennet’s elemental burst interacts with Ganyu’s abilities, which in particular is very important to know for melt comp, and even to an extent can be decently important for a Ganyu freeze comp if they decide to run Bennett for the extra damage.
By: EdisonsMathsClub#6469 Added: 04/17/2021
Finding: Ganyu's ultimate cannot be duplicated or have 2 on the field at the same time
Evidence: Youtube
Slap on massive CDR via Chong's C2, Anemo Resonance, and a -20% CDR abyss card
Ult repeatedly off cooldown
Test whether casting inside her ultimate allows it to coexist
Test whether casting outside of her ultimate field, but have the 2nd one overlap the ultimate, allows it to coexist
Test whether casting completely outside her ultimate field allows it to coexist
Significance: In a scenario where Ganyu has lots of cooldown reduction to the point where you can cast her ultimate before it ends, it is advised to wait until it has ended to cast her burst again.
By: Yukarix#6534, Greyhound#7836 Added: 06/24/2021 Discussion
Finding: Ganyu's rng ult icycles are more likely to hit a target(beyond the base 10) if they are larger in size (who'd have thought :keqewide: ) up to all 50 for enemies large enough such as Azhdaha
Evidence: Azhdaha 50 hits: Video Hilichurl 13/11/16/11/16/14 hits: Video Humanoid 11/12/10/13/10 hits: Video Fat fatui 14/12/12/11/15/14 hits: Video Geo Vishap 20/19/23/25/22/18 hits: Video Primo Vishap 25/24/23/24/19/26/22/23/21 hits: Video Geo Lawachurl 14(ran outside)/17/18/16/17 hits: Video Mitachurl 12(ran outside)/18/17/14/15/19 hits: Video Ruin guard 18/19/21/21/23/28 hits: Video
Significance: Ganyu's ult is better than expected
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/26/2021
Finding:
You can perform an ARCC shot with Ganyu only if you have Ganyu’s constellation 6 and have an instant charged shot primed.
Evidence:
[Video] ARCC shot test with C6
Significance:
Allows for quick execution of charged shot -> e -> charged shot -> e -> charged shot combo.
By: (Karzak#7126) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
When shooting your first Frostflake Arrow at an enemy if you hit the enemy directly with the arrow, the initial bloom of the shot will get the bonus 15% cryo resistance shred
Evidence:
User Karzak tested this interaction by intentionally missing the first arrow and only hitting the enemy with a bloom, and compared that damage to when they shot the enemy with both the arrow and the bloom, finding that the Bloom's damage increased slightly when the enemy was hit with the initial arrow first. ALong with this, they also noticed that the debuff arrows that surround the enemy started appearing after the initial hit, rather than from the Bloom hit.
Significance:
The 15% cryo resistance shredding from Ganyu’s constellation 1 is slightly better during short encounters as the enemy will get the resistance shred applied to the first bloom.
By: (Pinupski#9999) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
Ganyu can regenerate energy through her C1 passive ability even when shooting immune enemies.
Evidence:
Slimes are immune to cryo and therefore take no damage. Despite taking no damage, it can be seen in the video below that C1’s passive is functioning:
Video
Significance:
It can be useful to know that even in the event of immunity or resistance you can still generate energy from a FFA/B.
By: (Aerylle#1254) Added: 01/18/2021
Finding:
With only f2p supports, and a +20 blizzard strayer set on Ganyu with suboptimal crit rolls, it is entirely possible to clear abyss 12-3 with the time required for a 3 star clear without taking a single abyss card, making freeze Ganyu by far the easiest and cheapest 3 star abyss clear of 12-3 that is currently in the game. This has been done with both an amos bow and C1, as well as a prototype crescent, where the user purposefully avoided bursting off cooldown in order to circumvent C1 to the best of their abilities.
Evidence:
User Aerylle initially tested this composition using a C1 Ganyu and amos bow, where they found that they could easily clear abyss 12-3 in 77 seconds using a lvl 90 c1 Ganyu, lvl 90 amos bow, 8/6/8 for her talent levels, and a +20 blizzard strayer set with bad substats, and completely f2p supports with +0 artifacts.
Following the monumental run, Jinjinx attempted to recreate the run with similar conditions but no amos bow nor C1. Noticing that he could not get anywhere near as close to what Aerylle initial video showed he submitted a document of his calculations and explanation for why C1 Ganyu and Amos bow make a significant impact on why the run was possible, document linked below:
[Document] In reference to Aerylle’s Hyperinvested Ganyu run
In response to this Aerylle created an updated version of the run where he swapped his amos for a prototype crescent R1, took zero abyss cards in order to account for C1’s cryo resistance shred, and purposefully wasted time on his +0 Kaeya in order to mimic what a c0 player would likely have to do in order to gain energy for Ganyu’s elemental burst. After taking this into account Aerylle wrote the following in order to prove that not taking abyss cards more than made up for him ditching C1 along with posting this updated run.
[video] Hyperstack comp 12-3 clear V2
Although I wish I could disable C1 (MHY constellation toggle PLS), intentionally doing these disadvantages actually resulted in some really interesting findings. Here are calculations (video description has these as well, but listing them out here for purposes of library record) that calculate just how powerful Abyss buffs can be, and the relative damage gains I could have gotten at my Ganyu’s mediocre stats.
Crit reference, using a reasonable average of either A1 buffed on only cryo affected targets for FFA/FFB, or on frozen targets for burst (with no A1): 19.8+20+15+20 = 74.8% crit.
Abyss buffs: +8% crit, +15% crit damage cards:
1 card
(1+((.748+.08)_(1.809+.15)))/(1+(.748_1.809)) = 1.114 => 11.4% multiplicative increase
2 cards:
(1+((.748+.16)_(1.809+.3)))/(1+(.748_1.809)) = 1.239 => 23.9% multiplicative increase +40% Atk, -15% def chamber card:
Ganyu base atk: 335+510 = 845, 40% Atk boost => 845*.4 = 338 Atk increase
My Ganyu stats: 2236 total atk => (338+2236)/2236 = 1.151 => 15.1% multiplicative increase
On a good day, potential buffs => 1.239*1.151= 1.426 = up to 42.6% multiplicative increase
In comparison, here are the damage advantages of C1’s cryo res shred: With VV, the C1 -15% res buff is a 1.225/1.15 = 1.065 => 6.5% multiplicative increase in damage. Even at max potential WITHOUT VV on any target, it’s a 1.025/.9 = 1.139 => 13.9% multiplicative increase (not actually true for the run, as I shred every target on Anemo traveler, and on treasure hoarders they're actually -60% raw shredded by C6)”
Significance:
With the following in mind, there is clear evidence that a player with a hyper invested Ganyu can more than easily get the time required for a 3 star clear of abyss 12-3 with c0 and a prototype crescent once you take into account that the average player will pick good cards rather than going out of their way to not pick any cards, and will likely have more than +0 sets on all of their supports. Along with this, an interesting finding that Aerylle found due to these calculations was that it would theoretically be possible to have a 0 crit substat run abyss clear of 12-3 that would be fast enough for a 3 star clear if the player were to take good abyss cards during the run.
By: (Karzak#7126) (Yicc#7775) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
It is possible to weave an auto attack in between frost flake arrows with Ganyu in order to have Xingqiu’s rain swords apply hydro for effectively a 100% uptime of the hydro effect. Beyond this, the DPS loss is very minimal, (about 11%) and allows for Xingqiu to be a very viable option as a hydro support for Ganyu
Evidence:
User Yicc collected footage of Ganyu weaving auto attacks in between frost flake arrows with Xingqiu’s elemental burst active, and found that along with it being entirely feasible to keep constant hydro application, after comparing it with doing plain CA animation cancels the DPS loss was approximately 11%.
[video] Xingqiu permafreeze demonstration
[video] AA weave frame counting
[video] M1 CA spam animation cancel
Significance:
With this in mind we now know that Xingqiu is a very viable hydro applicator for Ganyu freeze comp due to the ability to weave auto attacks in between regular frost flake arrows with minimal DPS loss. Although the DPS loss is there overall for players who do not own a Mona, Xingqiu shows to be a very viable alternative.
By: (Karzak#7126) (Nello#1928) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
When using Mona’s elemental burst, if the target is frozen OR freeze is applied by her burst itself, the bubble will stay applied to the target regardless of the damage they receive until the freeze ends, allowing for the extension of the damage buff applied by her burst.
This works because Mona’s burst has 2 parts:
Applies a bubble to the enemy AND the Omen buff (extra DMG% when attacking the enemy);
The bubble pops either by taking damage or by time.
The Omen buff has a 5 s duration, however, the timer only starts AFTER the bubble pops. Since freeze prevents the bubble from popping even when taking damage, the Omen buff duration can be extended.
This technique can be performed by Ganyu and further improved by using other supports, these are a few findings:
1) Ganyu and Mona alone can extend the bubble duration for a decent amount of time through the combo: Ganyu's Q > Mona's E > Q > Ganyu's Attacks.
2) Using an anemo burst can result in the bubble duration being a bit shorter on a single enemy than using only Mona+Ganyu, but works better with grouped enemies inside Ganyu's burst.
3) When using Ganyu with Venti, infusing cryo seems to be better than infusing hydro.
4) The best and most consistent Mona+Ganyu+Anemo combo to take advantage from the Omen's extension and VV seems to be:
Ganyu's Q > Anemo Attack infusing cryo (VV) > Mona's E > Q > Ganyu's Attacks.
Evidence:
1) Can be seen at the start of the video.
2) The current theory for that is if Venti's or Sucrose's burst apply cryo or hydro too fast, they re-apply new layers of freeze too fast, and newer layers of freeze have shorter and shorter duration, requiring both hydro and cryo application sources to keep up.
00:00:16 - If the anemo burst infuses hydro and applies it too fast: Ganyu's burst on a single enemy won't be able to apply cryo fast enough to keep newer freeze layers (unless there are several enemies grouped together).
00:00:42 - If the anemo burst infuses cryo: Mona's E can't provide hydro fast enough (and long enough) to keep up with new freeze layers.
Therefore for single enemies the bubble might pop a bit sooner if an anemo burst is used.
3) Infusing hydro instead of cryo works, but seems its better to infuse cryo. The reason for this is that to infuse hydro you must use:
00:00:55 - Mona's Attack > Venti's Q (infuse hydro ) > Ganyu's burst before starting the combo. The time you lose doing the rotation does not add much time to Omen in comparison to cryo (00:01:12) (sometimes you can even lose time) and you do not benefit from cryo resistance shred from VV.
That's why 4) The easiest and most consistent Mona+Ganyu+Anemo combo in practice seems to be: 00:01:26 - Ganyu's Q > Anemo Attack (VV) > Mona's E > Q > Ganyu's Attacks.
[video] Ganyu and Mona - Extending Omen with freeze
Significance:
Proves that Mona+Ganyu is a powerful combination and can be easily performed without any anemo support. Also, tries to explain why using anemo characters can cause some inconsistencies, e.g. the combo sometimes extends the bubble, but sometimes it pops too soon.
While melt will still give better theoretical numbers, Omen’s extension allows for bonus damage to all attacks and despite not being a multiplicative boost it is a very significant boost to overall attack power.
By: (Poyo#6921) Added: 01/21/2021
Finding:
It is possible for Ganyu’s combo E > FFA > FFB to triple melt a 2U pyro application.
Evidence:
Since Ganyu’s cryo application is 1U for all her skills, if E > FFA > FFB is performed fast enough she can triple melt a 2U pyro application (each cryo melt consumes 0.5 pyro GU). Videos below show the damage difference between the same combo with and without melt proving that all attacks melted.
[video] Ganyu's combo E > FFA > FFB without melt
[video] Ganyu's combo E > FFA > FFB with melt
Significance:
It’s useful information for Ganyu owners since they can use melt comps more efficiently. It also might affect Ganyu’s power level in the future if we get reliable strong pyro appliers.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 06/02/2021
Finding:
Cryo Resonance applies to the bloom of the first shot.
Evidence:
Video shows 155 shots, 29 of which crit, which is significantly higher than the 5% we would have expected if cryo resonance did not apply to the first bloom.
Significance:
Cryo Resonance is better than expected. BS and Cryo Resonance together makes the first bloom hit with 15 + 40% crit rate on frozen enemies.
By: (SavageCabbage#1445) (Tempus#3251) Added: 01/14/2021
Finding:
When using 4-set BS, if you shoot an enemy afflicted by hydro, you will cause a freeze effect with the FFA, allowing the bloom to gain a 40% increase in critical rate.
Evidence:
A significant amount of shots with a critical rate of 60 < x < 70, all of which yielded crits. As well as many shots with only 5% crit whilst using 4p BS and cryo resonance yielding a significantly higher amount of critical hits than expected: roughly 65% This is close to the expected with 5% (base) + 40% (BS bonus) + 15% (resonance), significantly higher than 20%, proving that the set bonus is activating.
Bloom hits with 60%+ Crit rate and 4-set BS
FFB affected by BS set from initial arrow
Significance:
BS set is now much more viable for freeze comps since its set bonuses apply to FFB even when shooting an enemy without an elemental aura or afflicted by hydro, which means FFB will crit much more consistently. Also makes rain perfect for Ganyu freeze comps.
By: (Nello#1928) Added: 01/15/2021
Finding:
Xingqiu, Mona, Childe and Barbara are viable hydro supports for freeze comps, albeit C0 Childe is situational and Barbara has a long effective CD (can't apply for a long period before her E's CD reset).
Xingqiu: Excels in freeze uptime and control. You're able to apply hydro whenever you want by using normal attacks while his burst is active. Can even work against multiple targets, but less consistently than Mona. His downsides are the investment requirements - since he depends on decent ER values to be viable - and his less consistent hydro application against multiple targets.
Mona (C0): Excels in AoE hydro application. It is probably the most powerful option due to the Omen debuff (see Mona’s Omen extension technique). Can apply hydro easily on large areas and taunt enemies at the same time, which has good synergy with Ganyu's taunt. Does not require investment since you apply hydro via her Elemental Skill. Her downsides are freeze uptime and constant swapping. You cannot keep freeze up as often as XQ due to her effective CD (~6 s).
Childe (C0): It is a powerful option, however the most situational. Only works against multiple enemies. Riptide keeps reapplying AoE hydro every time enemies are defeated, therefore sometimes swapping is not even necessary. Might require 0 investment since his only job is to apply riptide (may not even need his A4 passive, check out Aerylle#1254 video below).
Barbara: Can apply hydro as long as you keep close to enemies while her E is active and has decent healing capacity. Her downsides are the need to remain near enemies and the long effective CD (17 s, but further reduced by A4 and C2 to 7.2 s). However, she is a free unit available to all and is viable if there are no other options.
Evidence:
Below are some examples of these characters being used in freeze comps.
XQ:
[video] Ganyu + C6 XQ Freeze - Abyss 12-1: consider that the XQ used in this video is C6 and his constellations increase his potential to apply hydro
[video] Ganyu + C6 XQ 12-3: Consider that the XQ used in this video is C6 and his constellations increase his potential to apply hydro
[video] C2 XQ + Ganyu 12-3: invested Ganyu + low investment team, except XQ who is geared enough to provide him the necessary ER. Also consider that the XQ used in this video is C2 and his constellations increase his potential to apply hydro
Mona (C0):
[video] Ganyu + Mona Freeze - Abyss 12-1
[video] Ganyu Abyss 12-3 First Half: invested Ganyu + low investment team, except Mona but she isn't dealing damage and is using a support weapon
Childe (C0):
[video] Ganyu + C0 Childe Freeze - Abyss 12-1
Barbara:
[video] F2P Ganyu Hyperstack Comp 12-3 clear: invested Ganyu + low investment team.
Credits: A very special thanks to Aerylle#1254, Kidz#8667 and Yicc#7775 for kindly sharing their videos.
Significance:
When building teams it is important to understand the viability/potential use of different units to apply hydro for freeze comps, especially considering required investment and unit accessibility, as some units are harder to obtain than others and/or require more resources to be useful.
By: (Kaihaoken#0001) Added: 02/10/2021
Finding:
The 15% cryo resistance shred from Ganyu's Constellation 1 stacks with the 20% omnishred from Zhongli's Jade Shield (post 1.3 buff).
Evidence:
For consistency's sake, in the video below all shots are taken at point blank range with Amos' Bow. First, Frostflake Bloom from Ganyu hits for 39,300. The next Frostflake Bloom with Zhongli's shield applied hits for 43,134. As resistance shred gets diminishing returns beyond 0% resistance, we see a damage gain of roughly 9.75% which falls in line with the strength of Zhongli’s Jade Shield resistance shred of 20%.
Expected damage increase: 1.125/1.025 = 1.0975 (9.75% increase)
Observed increase: 43,134/39,300 = 1.0975 (9.75% increase)
[video] Ganyu's C1 stacking with ZL's shred
Significance:
Zhongli provides an ample dps gain along with protection when playing in shotGanyu range for any build. Additionally, this shows that Zhongli's resistance shred can stack with other forms of resistance decreasing abilities, such as Chongyun (A4), Geo resonance, etc.
By: (TiagoESC#6773) Added: 01/14/2021
Finding:
Ganyu’s Trail of Qilin is classified as a construct similar to Amber’s bunny, and all of the geo character’s constructs. As such, her Trail of Qilin can function as a trigger for smaller pressure plates which can help in exploration
Evidence:
User Taigo tested by placing Ganyu’s Trail of Qilin on a large pressure plate where it was shown to be able to trigger half of the plate, implying that the construct’s weight is equal to that of Ambers bunny and can trigger either a small pressure plate, or half of a large one.
[video] Ganyu E pressure plate test
Significance:
With this in mind, Ganyu is potentially a better character to use for exploration as she can fill the niche of a pressure plate activator, especially if the player has access to constellation 2 giving them a second charge of Trail of Qilin.
By: (Karzak#7126) (SavageCabbage#1445) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
The Frostflake arrow’s bloom although at first glance would appear to be a separate ability unable to headshot or trigger weak points, after further investigation proved that in certain scenarios it is actually possible to trigger weak points with the bloom, in turn activating Prototype Crescents buff.
Evidence:
User SavageCabbage noticed that they at one point accidentally managed to trigger the prototype crescent’s boost without hitting the enemy with their initial arrow. After discussing this finding with user Karzak, after further testing they discovered that the bloom indeed was considered a projectile, and had the capability (although very unrealistic in practice) to headshot.
[video] Ganyu bloom weak point hit
Significance:
In practice when using the Prototype Crescent it is very possible to accidentally get a passive proc from the bow.
By: (Moonrobin#2608) (PlzBemaiPenguin#0923) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
When in co-op with multiple Ganyu’s regardless of how many Ganyu ultimates you stack, the 20% bonus cryo damage from ascension 4 will only apply for a single one of the elemental bursts.
Evidence:
User BemaiPenguin tested with Moonrobin in a co-op lobby by testing their E damage with no Ganyu burst, a single Ganyu burst, and two Ganyu bursts. After testing, they found that the E dealt 302, 362, and 362 respectively, showing that additional Ganyu bursts do not apply extra bonus cryo damage
Significance:
When playing multiplayer in an open world with multiple Ganyus, we now know that stacking Ganyu ults does not provide multiple A4 stacks to one another.
By: (Cola#6861) Added: 01/31/2021
Finding:
Ganyu’s Frostflake arrow when shot on water applies the ice effect for long enough to allow for a 2nd charge shot to be used, in turn allowing for Ganyu to make an icebridge.
Evidence:
User ColaSen tested shooting frostflake arrows repeatedly to try and travel across water and found that there was just enough time to be able to build a constant bridge if you are fast enough with your Frostflake arrows.
Significance:
Ganyu is a decent character when attempting to travel across water as her Frostflake Arrows has no cooldown unlike abilities which will theoretically allow for faster overall travel across water.
By: Pinupski#9999 Added: 04/05/2021
The culmination of all Ganyu macro-related testing and iteration since release. Now compiled into one mostly comprehensible document.
Finding: Most optimal/reliable timings for Ganyu rotations tested and verified via macro.
Example tech macros for C6 E FFA Instacast, Quickshot and Aimcast variants.
Example tech for standalone Quickshot.
Significance: Mostly so close in timings that there's not a huge difference for normal players to use one over the other, preference should be given to whatever's most reliable/comfortable.
Significance: QoL and DPS increase to fluidly execute all as one motion.
By: mol#3280 Added: 5/6/2021 [Disscussion]
Finding: When C1 Sucrose has both stacks of E down, a sacrificial fragments proc will reset the cooldown showed by the timer on E.
Evidence: Streamable Video lost to the sands of time I cast one Sucrose E, waited until the first cooldown was down to 5s, and cast the second E. A reset occurred, and the time of the second cooldown was ~15s (minus 10% due to anemo resonance in video). So, whatever timer is currently showing is the one which will be reset.
Significance: Unlike Sacrificial-type-weapon users with single-cast skills, any serial-cooldown, multi-cast skill user may waste cooldown resets by causing a reset when their first cooldown is near 0s. Since the timer on stacked skills begins with the first skill cast out of the stack, and that skill is the one which is reset (not the longer, still waiting cooldowns), resets can be completely wasted on characters with multiple stacks. For example, with Sucrose it is possible to reset a skill with 0.1s of cooldown remaining, then have a stack of 15s go onto cooldown afterward. To get the most out of the cooldown benefit of sacrificial weapons, characters with multiple stacks might consider using stacks as quickly as possible.
